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" The Gravel Pit "
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Wrestling
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WWE
The Crossface
Posted by The Smart Marks on Oct 11, 2002, 21:32
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It's been awhile since we've had a Crossface but WWE has given us plenty to talk about. This week, the Smart Marks dissect RAW, Smackdown, X-Pac's new championship, Hulk HOgan's status and much more. Before we get started. let's meet the players...
Alina: The Smart Marks welcome our first female staff member, Alina. Alina did what no other net writer had the balls to do... she reviewed WCW Thunder for the Playstation! Don't miss her take on the worst game ever!
Brandon Truitt: Brandon is a regular here on the Crossface and happens to own a heaping helping of shoot interviews. Check out his recap of the Greg Valentine shoot interview.
Dr. Tom: Tom brings the content every week, providing the reader with his Smackdown recaps, The Mid-Week News, movie reviews and much more! Read up on Tom's feelings of this week's Smackdown.
Jared "JHawk" Hawkins: You can count on JHawk to speak his mind as he reviews RAW on a weekly basis. Along with his RAW reviews, he also drops in with his column, This Week In Wrestling, examining a significant date in wrestling history. Check out his latest thoughts on Eric Bischoff's playground.
William Helmick: If you're interested in writing for the Smart Marks, drop William a line. For now, he'll be moderating the discussion.
William: First off, it�s no secret that Smackdown is the better show. With that said, who�s to blame for the poor quality of the RAW program� the wrestlers or Vince and his writing staff?
Brandon: Vince and the writing staff are to blame... For one, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit writing. For another, the wrong guys are getting pushes, even though fan responses are pretty obvious for a few of these guys.
Dr. Tom: It's both. The writing is better on Smackdown, but Raw just doesn't have the talent on its roster that Smackdown does. I place the blame more on the writers, though, because they should be able to think of ways to use the talent that they have better.
Brandon: Dr. Tom, Smackdown may have more talent than RAW but they also utilize about 90% of its talent. RAW puts talentless and/or unover guys on top while talented and over guys sit around with nothing to do... like Booker and Jericho.
JHawk: If there were any wrestlers other than William Regal and Lance Storm on the roster, maybe he'd have a gripe, but it's a combination of a shitty roster, asinine storylines, and not listening to the fans. How long have we listened to "RVD RVD" and massive pops for Booker, yet Kane and Bubba Ray Dudley get to look more credible.
Alina: The writers are to blame. Your worker's morale will obviously go down when you have no chance of moving up the card. Dumb storylines like HLA don't help the cause either.
JHawk: Exactly, Alina. When you have no midcard title, why should guys like D'Lo and Dreamer give a damn if they have a good match or not? They won't be rewarded with anything
Dr. Tom: Like I said, Brandon, the writers need to be smart enough to utilize what they have. The talent's not the same as Smackdown's, but that shouldn't stop them from putting out shows that are at least watachable. Heck, I much prefer Monday Night Football to Raw lately.
William: Well, on Monday, Vince plans on having a talent meeting. Do you think the scope of the show will change or will morale deteriorate even further?
Dr. Tom: A WWE Talent meeting? Morale will be in the toilet. The beatings will continue until morale IMPROVES~!
Brandon: Helmet, things will get worse, which I previously thought to be impossible. Vince will pass the buck and the guys will be less motivated to make bad writing, and bad booking, look good.
JHawk: The scope of the show will change because morale is deteriorating further. The matches will suck even more than they do now because the guys who are busting their Asses will be made to look inferior to Triple H and the hosses.
Dr. Tom: Vince will do a little bitching, everyone will get defensive, HHH will say how much everyone sucks-uh and is lazy-uh, and what's left of the morale will fall right into the shitter.
Alina: Talent meeting? Will Triple H put down the rest of the Raw roster for not sleeping their way to the top?
Brandon: Alina, he already did that before... it hasn't been long enough for him to do it again.
Dr. Tom: I want to see a midcard revolt.
JHawk: Hey, Triple H worked hard to get there. He just hasn't done shit since he got there.
William: One wrestler who may not be at the talent meeting on Monday is Test. Rumor has it that he will get the axe next? What are your thoughts?
JHawk: Doesn't he have another month of immunity?
Brandon: I won't be sorry to see him go, but Jeff Hardy was heavily rumored to get a release recently and didn't.
Alina: I think it's all a rumor, Test isn't going anywhere
Dr. Tom: Why stop at Test? Jeff Hardy and Big Slow should join him in the unemployment line.
JHawk: I doubt anybody would actually miss Test, but being a hoss I doubt they'd let him go.
Brandon: If they could get out of their contract with Big Slow, he AND Mark Henry would be gone by now, Dr Tom.
Dr. Tom: I'm sure, Brandon. Maybe one day, they'll just go ahead and bite the damn bullet.
JHawk: Exactly, that's why they keep pushing Mark Henry every six months or so before they realize he still sucks.
Brandon: They need to tell them that they will either take a buyout for about 25-50% of their remaining contract or Haku, Angle, and Lesnar will rough them up every night until they quit... at which point they'll receive nothing.
William: the reasons he is on the outs with management are what baffle me. He refuses to cut his hair or wear wrestling tights. Seems a little petty to me.
JHawk: It is petty, but I remember back in 1988 where they hired a guy named "High Chief Afi". They promised him a huge push if he got his entire body covered with tattoos and Bobby Heenan even managed him. He lasted three weeks. So listening to management will get you nowhere.
William: With all of the turmoil, it's a shame that the upcoming feud between Booker T and Jericho is on the midcard and not for a championship belt. What are your thoughts on their feud?
Brandon: Booker T and Jericho SHOULD be a hot feud. If Booker had cost Jericho the IC belt and/or Jericho's chance at the tag titles, it should have been enough to shoot the feud into overdrive.
Dr. Tom: Booker and Jericho should be feuding a lot higher up the card than they are. This is something they could milk for months, but post-Crash TV, we're lucky to get two PPV matches out of a feud.
JHawk: If they care, they could put on a **** classic at No Mercy. Since I doubt they do, they'll probably put on something watchable for Raw but worthless for a 35-dollar pay-per-view.
Alina: I'm not expecting much from Booker and Jericho. It will be midcard fodder, and get no time on the PPV.
William: What bothers me the most is that this is a midcard feud. Booker has surpassed RVD as Raw's most popular wrestler. It's not even close anymore.
Dr. Tom: That's because HHH got a hold of RVD, Will. He's a walking heat sink-uh for whomever he squashes.
Brandon: That's VERY true, Dr. Tom. The fact that he's gotten bogged down in a "feud" with Ric Flair hasn't helped.
JHawk: What feud with Flair? The one that's so hot they don't bother putting them on screen together?
Brandon: Yes, that one JHawk... the one that's keeping RVD out of Kane's spot at the PPV.
JHawk: This is exactly what I was afraid of at Unforgiven, and they still didn't bother listening to anybody.
Brandon: JHawk, there are two problems. 1) Vince thinks that HHH and Taker are draws and 2) They have an ego that tells them that Bubba and Kane will be their next main eventers while Booker T, Angle, RVD, etc. are right in front of their faces.
William: Well, speaking of Kane, at the end of RAW on Monday, one of the worst possible storylines in recent history began. Is there anyway for this miserable storyline to pay off?
Brandon: Helmet, I WOULD say that there isn't a way for it to pay off, but I also said that about the Chuck and Billy wedding and they managed to make that not suck.
Alina: No. Why should any of us care who Katie Fick is? There's no way it can possibly lead to making a wrestling match more exciting.
Dr. Tom: There are a lot of ways to pay it off, but they all suck.
JHawk: Agreed Tom. If I wanted storylines that made no logical sense I'd watch Days of our Lives. When you can take a "World Title" match and make it the point that gets pushed into the background, then you're doing something wrong...
JHawk: When it's a murder storyline with more holes in logic than Swiss cheese, that makes it worse.
Alina: I'm all for storylines, that's what gets me involved in wrestling. But a senseless murder line that only confuses people is stupid. Triple H is supposed to be the heel here too and I just don't get it.
William: Well, with that one storyline ending, they managed to overshadow any good that came out of the TLC match. What are your thoughts on what is becoming another gimmick match that has outlived its usefulness?
Dr. Tom: I don't necessarily think TLC has outlived its usefulness. They just need to use it when it means something, not in a throwaway clusterfuck match on Raw that sets up the lamest angle of the year.
Brandon: The TLC match had enough time on the shelf between the third one in June 2001, and this most recent one to keep some of its mystique. Unfortunately, they've probably killed it for good by having a non-aerial non-hardcore guy win it single handedly against 6 better wrestlers.
Dr. Tom: True, Brandon. Kane kicking everyone's ass sandwiched the highspot/lie around/highspot/lie around sequences to the detriment of the match.
JHawk: The main problem with this TLC, aside from Kane being in it, was it didn't feel the same. Only one member from each of the teams made it legendary? Still I agree with Tom. Give it the proper build up and it's still a money match
Alina: Gimmick matches like TLC and Hell In the Cell should only be used to end super feuds at PPV, never in a quickly thrown together TV match.
Brandon: Very true, Alina. This is only the second time they've done it on TV, and this one was definitely more thrown together because there are no real tag teams anymore on RAW.
JHawk: What's a tag team?
Brandon: Exactly. It's one of those historical oddities from the late 80's that doesn't exist anymore.
Alina: It was also a match that Kane obviously had to win. Why did they waste a TLC match on that? The same point would have been made if he just threw around the little guys.
Dr. Tom: Agreed, Alina, but it's obvious they're desperate on Raw. They want to be in the same league as Smackdown, and they'll burn down whatever match's mystique they have to try and get there.
Brandon: I think that they would have done Hell in the Cell, a match more suited to Kane's strengths, if the Brock-Taker match at the PPV wasn't using that stipulation.
JHawk: Tom, why not just shuffle around Storm, Regal, Goldust, Booker, RVD, and Jericho around every week and have three matches nearing 10 minutes with those six guys? Then we could downplay the guys that suck.
Dr. Tom: I wouldn't mind, JHawk. At least there'd be some quality on the card. Raw SUCKED this week, and even the TLC match wasn't all that and a bag of chips. It's a shame when a good gimmick match can't do anything to save a lousy show.
Alina: I think that WWE is intentionally making Raw the sports-entertainment show though.
JHawk: Which is fine, Alina, but I'm not being entertained, and that's the main problem. Murder storylines aren't helping their cause.
Dr. Tom: They are, Alina. They set it up that way all along, with the "talent trades" always favoring Smackdown in terms of good workers. But Sports Entertainment doesn't have to equal bad TV, which is all they've ended up making on Monday nights.
William: Well, one final RAW topic. HHH stated in a recent interview that he plans on having feuds with RVD and Booker T in the near future, as well as Kane. Is there anyway in hell he puts any of the three over?
Brandon: He MIGHT put Kane over because Kane's the least threatening of the three guys.
JHawk: Not just no, hell no. He's already had the opportunity to put RVD over and he pissed all over it.
Dr. Tom: I don't see him putting any of those guys over, Will. Oddly enough, I think Booker has the best chance at it, only because the Big Gold Belt would be on the line.
Alina: Booker would be a good choice for the Big Gold Belt, considering it's worthless. Once again, all the blame goes to the soap operas writers. They simply cannot write anything interesting.
Brandon: Alina, it's a combination of the fact that they only hire FAILED soap opera writers as well as the fact that crash TV has killed off a lot of storylines and they wouldn't know what to do with an old-school wrestling story if it bit them on the ass.
William: Well let's look at a much more pleasing show. On Smackdown, there is only one glaring problem and his name starts with U and ends with Taker. Does Taker finally put Brock over in Hell in the Cell or do we get another indecisive unsatisfying ending?
Brandon: This means that Matt Hardy and the entire heel locker room will run out to force Taker's shoulders to the mat.
JHawk: If Hell in the Cell isn't the blow off of the feud, then what's the point of using it? A cheap buyrate? No, because the Taker cheating on Sara storyline is turning people off. Add that to the fact that the last Hell in the Cell match sucked
Brandon: The Hell in the Cell stipulation is because Terry Taylor is trying to do anything possible to stay in the WWE and this match is his baby. If the match fails, he's canned.
JHawk: Brock has to go over for it to be worthwhile, so under WWE logic, we can conclude Taker's walking off with the belt. Sadly, I'm not sure I'm joking
Dr. Tom: Brock will go over, and Taker will use the "hand injury" as an excuse to have elbow surgery.
Brandon: JHawk, their original plan was for Brock to win cleanly this month, but I'm sure this will change if Taker says he "isn't feeling it" on the night of the show.
JHawk: Brandon, the original plan was Brock to win cleanly last month too. I actually liked last month�s finish, but I'll believe it when I see it.
William: Do you think Vince will allow that to happen two PPV's in a row?
JHawk: He did when Shawn was champion. If he thinks a third match can draw, I wouldn't put it past him. But I do think Brock goes over because he has to.
Dr. Tom: No, they won't have another copout ending. Brock goes over.
Alina: Brock goes over, simply because Undertaker will be out for a while.
Brandon: JHawk, last month's match was supposed to be a screwy Brock win, not a completely clean one. If Brock doesn't get a clean win this month, his credibility's dead and the fans will start drifting away because the Old Guard won't put anyone over. It's gotten to the point where Taker and HHH are on a level of their own and even guys like Rock and Austin aren't seen at their level by the bookers.
William: Well, one of the most intriguing developments on Smackdown (for me anyway) is the tag title tournament. Let's play fantasy bookers. Who wins the tournament and why?
JHawk: I'm still confused why they're called the "WWE" titles when Kane and Hurricane won them two weeks ago, but I says Eddie and Chavo because that's the only credible tag team they've got.
Brandon: Benoit and Angle go over Edge and Rey. They need to have them throw the tag title match to get out of teaming with each other, leading to a stronger feud by the time they're done.
Dr. Tom: I was hoping the finals would be Benoit/Angle against the Guerreros, but it looks like we're getting that one next week. I think Edge and Rey beat D'Von and not-Faarooq, and the Guerreros CHEAT TO WIN~! against Benoit and Angle.
Alina: I say Eddie and Chavo, with Angle screwing up like usual, setting up a match between them at Survivor Series.
Dr. Tom: I'd put the belts on the Guerreros, because there's no danger in keeping them as a team. Angle and Benoit should have a singles feud. Eddy and Chavo make a good team, and their antics would get them over as champs easily.
William: Well, personally I am hoping the finals are the Guerrero�s vs. Edge and ReyRey. This gives No Mercy two possible **** matches off the bat! Benoit vs. Angle and the Tag Final.
Dr. Tom: I think that will be the finals, Will. Of course, I'm not a hack who couldn't cut it writing crappy daytime TV, so what do I know?
JHawk: If they don't do that, I'm not sure I'd go to a bar to see the show. Eddy and Chavo vs. D-Von and Ron Simmons? No way I'd pay for that.
Dr. Tom: That's heel vs. heel anyway, JHawk. I think they'll want to avoid that.
JHawk: Again, Tom, this is WWE we're talking about. I put nothing past them at this point.
William: Well, someone who hasn't appeared on Smackdown or any other show is Hulk Hogan. Who's telling the truth... him or Vince? Keep in mind they are both notorious liars.
Dr. Tom: I have to side with Vince. How would someone who makes as much as Hogan probably does work without a contract? That's just lousy business, even if Vince and Hogan do like each other.
Brandon: According to the last comments I've heard, Hogan only had a one-year contract and the handshake bit refers to the agreement between the two that Hogan doesn't have to do anything else before it expires in January. This gives me hope that Kevin Nash only signed a one-year deal and his ass will get canned as soon as it expires.
Alina: I thought Hogan was injured.
Brandon: Hogan's got a nagging back injury, but that's nothing compared to, say, Bubba's screwed up neck that nearly caused him to kill HHH.
JHawk: I do side with Hogan as far as the Australian trip goes. Why go there if there's no added incentive? But Hogan is known to tell lies on Bubba the Love Sponge, and by default I'd trust Vince because of it. Hogan's changed stories more than some people change clothes.
Brandon: The guys worked a PPV show but only got a slightly above average house show payoff for it from what I hear. That is consistent with what Hogan's said.
William: Well, another former nWo member who recently made the news is X-Pac. He won the X-Title last night. Does this just convince you that NWA:TNA has an even shorter life expectancy or did they do the right thing?
Brandon: NWA has signed their death warrant. The only thing keeping the show alive was the X-Division and they have given it the kiss of death by putting the title on a lazy worker whose neck keeps him from doing the crazy shit everyone ELSE in that division does.
JHawk: I'm more amazed that it took them so long to steal my ladder match finish idea from my e-fed but I don't know. TNA has a highly loyal following, and as long as Styles or Low-Ki get it back pronto, they might be OK.
Dr. Tom: I can't see giving the belt to someone like X-Pac being a good thing. He's unmotivated too often, and without the big paychecks, he doesn't even have that to motivate him.
JHawk: True Tom, but his best matches are consistently with guys who have to carry him. Bret Hart on Raw in 94, Tajiri and Kidman last year, the series with Lynn in Global way back when
William: Is everyone else even surprised the company has lasted this long?
Brandon: Yeah, I am Helmet... Jarrett's too cheap to do this unless he's making money and with a product THIS bad (as of the past month), he can't be making THAT much.
Alina: As long as NWA isn't on TV, it doesn't matter anyway.
Dr. Tom: I'd be surprised if they lasted far into the New Year, Will. They could have survived this long on Jarrett's obstinance alone.
JHawk: I don't know if I'm surprised they're still around, but I'm glad they are. Now if they can actually get a free cable deal instead of this underhyped syndicated package. Jarrett's been around a long time, and he seems to respond to the crowd's reactions when it comes to pushing talent. Face it, who would have seen NWA World Champion Ron Killings? But the crowd popped for it.
Dr. Tom: Killings has a lot of charisma, though, JHawk. X-Pac has been a heat sink for years.
Brandon: The problem is that Jarrett got bogged down in bringing in Kliq-related guys like X-Pac, Hall, Road Dogg, etc. That totally killed whatever momentum they had.
William: Finally, who would you pick for wrestler of the year and why?
Brandon: I'd go with Angle because he's made EVERYONE he's wrestled look good... except for Mark Henry, the eternal lost cause.
JHawk: Wrestler of the Year? Kurt Angle. He made a match with Hogan watchable, he made Cena look like he belonged in the big time, and outside of the Henry match, he's always entertaining. All he needs is a title to cement it.
Alina: Kurt Angle. He's put on the most exciting matches, always entertaining, and still is regarded by the fans as a threat against anyone despite being written as a joke all year.
Dr. Tom: If only Benoit had wrestled more this year, I'd go with him. His comeback has been tremendous, though. I second the nomination of Angle, for being excellent in the ring, gold on the mike, and willing to make himself look like a goober for a storyline.
William: I'm going to disagree with all of you and go with Eddy Guerrero. To me, he has been the single most valuable player in the fed to date. He also has overcome more obstacles and achieved more with what little he has been given.
JHawk: Eddy gets my vote for Comeback Wrestler of the Year, but he was in wrestling limbo for three months.
William: His work in Japan and the Indys has also been above average and I consider that into my decision. I agree, he is the comeback wrestler of the year but unless Angle-benoit has an awesome payoff, Eddy was also involved in the feud of the year and has carried just as many people to great matches as Angle.
Dr. Tom: Eddy would be my second choice.
JHawk: Until Eddy has a **** classic with John freaking Cena, we'll have to disagree.
William: Whoa whoa whoa! I didn't see anyone, including Angle, have a **** match with John Cena!
Brandon: Eddy's had better guys to work with than Angle for the most part. Eddy's been paired with Austin, Edge, and RVD for most of the year. Angle's worked with Cena and Hogan among others and still had great matches.
Dr. Tom: And Mark Henry. Don't forget Mark Henry.
JHawk: **** might be an exaggeration, but the Rikishi feud isn't doing Eddy any favors, and Angle's even made Rikishi look average.
William: Angle did not have a great match with Hogan. They had a lousy match with tons of heat
JHawk: Don't forget Eddy's anti-classic with Flair at King Of the Ring.
William: That's true but no one has had a good match with Flair this year. Not Austin, not HHH, not Hogan, not Taker. Not Vince. No one! Every match that Flair has been in this year has sucked huge and he would be my vote for wrestler that needs to retire ASAP!
Dr. Tom: That's because Flair is D-O-N-E.
JHawk: If King Of the Ring is your measuring stick, Angle-Hogan was better than Flair-Guerrero, and only one of those guys has a rep for bad matches.
William: Not true JHawk, Flair has a rep for putting on bad matches in the last two years, especially this year.
Alina: Just look at Flair, that's enough reason for him to retire.
JHawk: But Flair's been a part-time wrestler for most of the last two years, don't forget. And remember, I was one of the few that felt Austin-Flair sucked the meat missile.
Brandon: The problem is that Flair's either broke or close to it, which means he's Vince's personal bitch until his contract expires.
William: And if King of the Ring was the measuring stick then the contenders would be RVD and Jericho since they were the only one's who had a good match on that show.
JHawk: But RVD and Jericho aren't in their 40s or 50s, and we were measuring Angle and Eddy against lesser competition
Alina: I agree that Austin-Flair did suck hard. It was mostly chops, and Austin pathetically imitating Flair.
Dr. Tom: He can't even do the Flair Flip anymore. He struggled on a knee-breaker a few weeks ago. As great as he was in his day, that day's long gone, and he needs to hang it up. Chops comprise about 2/3 of Flair's offense now. Chop, chop, chop, back suplex, chop, and put the figure four on the wrong leg.
JHawk: Flair never did put the figure four on the right leg!
Dr. Tom: I know, JHawk, and that's always annoyed me.
JHawk: One time he put it on the right leg, and one of the announcers (I think it was Schiavone) bitched on air that it was the wrong leg.
Alina: The figure four always getting reversed annoys me more, since it's not possible and looks silly.
Dr. Tom: It does look silly. Look, I rolled over into a position that puts no pressure on your legs. Now scream in pain!
JHawk: You think that's bad? In the 60�s, wearing long tights was the counter to that hold.
William: Well, I think we can all agree on a couple of points. First of all, Flair needs to retire. Also, WWE is a much better place with Eddy AND Angle in the fed! On that note, the Crossface is now over!
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